NBC NFL analyst and former Buccaneers and Colts coach Tony Dungy, who won Super Bowl XLI with Peyton Manning while at Indianapolis, takes a timeout for some Q&A with Post columnist Steve Serby.
Q: Explain what being the second African-American head coach in the Hall of Fame means to you.
A: I knew the story of Fritz Pollard, and not a whole lot of people do, and I knew there was a long time period in between. I knew I shouldn’t have been the first modern-era African-American head coach, but I felt like I was representing a lot of other guys who if they’d been given the opportunity, could have done the same thing. I felt like my selection just kind of was really emblematic of so many other guys. I’m very proud of that.
Q: What was it like for you wondering if you would ever be hired to be an NFL head coach?
A: I didn’t think of it so much racially. A lot of people were talking about African-American head coaches, but by that time, we had Art Shell and Denny Green and Ray Rhodes. So I didn’t look at it so much as a racial thing. I thought my style and the way I coached, just a lot of people didn’t think that was the right way to do things, and weren’t looking for that style of coach. So I didn’t know if it was gonna happen or not, I was pretty content in saying if I’m just an assistant, I’ll be disappointed, but that’s the way things roll. And then I had the interview with the Bucs, and Mr. Glazer saying that that’s just the way he raised his boys, that’s what he was looking for, and he wanted me to be his coach.
Q: What are your thoughts today about the evolution of the Rooney Rule?
A: Dan Rooney could never envision the way the rule has actually been carried out and practiced. And his thought process was absolutely right. What he envisioned was people setting up a blueprint and having specifications for what they were looking for in a head coach, and then saying, “OK given that, let me make sure I interview a diverse pool of candidates to make sure I at least get one minority candidate in the mix, and if I do, I’ll make the right decisions.” But I don’t think we always do that in practice, and a lot of times guys get interviewed and they aren’t really within the blueprint of what the owner’s looking for. He’d be heartbroken to see how it’s been put into practice. And when it’s put into practice the right way, then it does work, and that’s frankly how Mike Tomlin got the job in Pittsburgh. Mr. Rooney’s philosophy was he always wanted young, defensive-minded head coaches, he wanted guys who were good communicators and good teachers. So he put that kind of blueprint out there, and he found Mike Tomlin when Mike wasn’t a household word. Mike was very similar to Chuck Noll when Chuck was hired, he was very similar to Bill Cowher when Bill was hired. And that’s the way that the process should work, it hasn’t always been put into practice that way.
Q: So how do you fix it?
A: You can’t legislate anything to these owners and decision-makers. You just have to put them in position and just say, “Hey, understand what you’re looking for and try to interview the best candidates with an open mind.” If you do that, then that’s all you can ask for. That’s what I would say that’s where we need to go.
Q: Tell me how you almost became a New York Giants assistant coach.
A: (Laugh) I played two years for the Steelers, and I played a year for the 49ers, and then my third year to the Giants. Ray Perkins was the head coach, a guy named Bill Belichick was the special teams coach. I lasted kind of midway through training camp and got cut, and realized it was probably time to hang it up. When I got cut, Coach Perkins said: “I really like a lot of things about you, you’re just not a very good player. But one day, you might be a good coach.” I didn’t think too much of it, I thought it was just small talk. … And so the beginning of winter of 1981, Coach Perkins called me and he said, “Hey I was curious about that. I’d like to talk to you about coming on the Giants coaching staff.” So I called Tom Moore, who recruited me, coached me in college, and he was on the staff in Pittsburgh, and I said, “Hey, I might have a chance to go to the Giants, what do you think?” And apparently he talked to Coach Noll, ’cause Coach Noll called me the next day and he said: “Are you really serious about looking into coaching? If you really want to try coaching, you ought to come here.” So instead of getting on the plane to New York, I got on the plane to Pittsburgh, and at 25 years old I was a defensive assistant with the Steelers. But probably wouldn’t have happened if Ray Perkins hadn’t called me.
Q: What do you recall about the young Bill Belichick?
A: He was tremendous. I remember he was working with me in training camp, and we put in this punt block. It was a punt rush and I said, “Coach Belichick, I’ve never rushed a punt in my life, I’ve been a return man and I’ve been a holdup guy on the outside, I’ve never done anything in the inside traffic. So he took me after practice, and he worked with me about 30 minutes on what you look for, getting off, looking at the football on the snap, picking out your spot, knowing where the punter’s gonna punt, eyeballing that target 11 yards behind the center. The next day, I went out and blocked a punt in practice. We were broadcasting their game on Thanksgiving night and we kind of laughed about it, he vaguely remembered it. But it was something that made an impression on me, and what it told me is when I got into my coaching later on is that it’s about teaching people.
Q: What is your favorite Herm Edwards anecdote?
A: (Laugh) In ’89, I go to work for Marty Schottenheimer on the coaching staff at Kansas City, he’s working for Carl Peterson in the front office. “Hey if anything happens, you get a general manager’s job I’m gonna come with you, I get a head coaching job you come with me, blah blah blah.” So four years later I get the Tampa job, and I call him up. “Hey let’s go, we gotta make this work!” And he’s like, “Tampa? No, no, I don’t think so.” I called him for a straight month to finally get him to say yes. … He gets to Tampa, and we’re in the old building. And this building was built when they had 40 players and six coaches. So Herm is the assistant head coach, and he gets his pick of what limited space we have. There’s one coach’s office that was actually a closet. It was so small you could have a desk and a chair in there but you couldn’t close the door, so anytime he had to have a private conversation on the phone, he had to take the chair out and stand up to close the door. And he said, “I will take the smallest office, the worst conditions, we’re gonna make this work and we’re gonna be great in spite of the facilities.” But I think that set the tone for all of us.
Q: You first met him in 1977. Do you remember him picking up Joe Pisarcik’s fumble in ’78?
A: I remember it well, and I was like, “My man just changed the course of pro football.” I was thrilled for him. … People mistake us all the time, especially when I’m in New York — “When you picked up that fumble it was just unbelievable (laugh).” I said, “No, you got the wrong guy.” And he gets the same thing — “When you guys won the Super Bowl, I was so happy got you.”
Q: Describe the young Mike Tomlin.
A: Herm gets the Jets job, and I’m looking for a DB coach. I ask our scouts, “Give me somebody who’s gotta be a great teacher, great communicator, and somebody who can control this room the way Herm did.” Mike is 29 years old at the time, and they were right. In five minutes, you just saw that this guy had confidence, he had knowledge, he’s a communicator. I’ve decided to hire him, and he’s only been in the building five minutes. When he comes into my office to interview, my son Eric was 9 at the time, and he was laying on the ground playing video games (laugh) on the floor, so I had to step over a 9-year-old and walk around the TV and the PlayStation to interview with this guy, but that let him know that that part was important in professional football. And years later, when I actually went in there to do an interview in Pittsburgh for NBC, he had the Family Saturday going just like we did in Tampa, and he’s got kids all around, he had his kids there. It was a great gratifying moment for me to see him carry that on what I had learned from Coach Noll and Coach [Dennis] Green in Minnesota. His first day in professional football, he had to step over a 9-year-old to get to work.
Q: The first time you met Peyton Manning?
A: He was the College Player of the Year and I was the NFL Coach of the Year, and we were actually riding in the same limo over to the [Davey O’Brien Awards] banquet. Had a great conversation with him, and I remember after everything was over I wished him luck and I said, “Hey, I wished I’d get a chance to coach you, but it’s not gonna happen, you’re gonna be the first pick in the draft, and good luck.” And then five years later, I get the job in Indy, and he comes in, and I say, “You probably don’t remember much about that night, but I met you before.” He proceeds to tell me everything that happened. The hotel we’re staying in, my wife’s name. … He even went verbatim down the whole like three hours. The second meeting was what got me. Photographic memory, and just a desire to pick up every bit of information.
Q: Have you been on the Manningcast?
A: (Laugh) I have not. When Peyton and Eli did that, I thought it would be very good because just being around them and hearing them talk football, it’s fun and it’s fascinating. So I thought they would have an audience.
Q: How would you describe your coaching style?
A: My coaching style I got basically from Chuck Noll, my first coach and my first boss. And when he hired me as a 25-year-old with no experience, I asked him what I was supposed to be doing, and he said, “Your only job as a coach is to help your players be better.” And so that’s what I tried to do for 28 years is help my players every way I could on and off the field, and I viewed myself as their helper and somebody who was there to assist them, and that’s what I tried to do. He took star players and got them to buy into the team concept. A couple of the things that he always said that I loved, and I base things on, he said, “Champions don’t do extraordinary things, champions do the ordinary things better than everyone else.” And then, “Everybody’s job is important, but nobody’s indispensable.” And those were the two principles from him that I tried to build on. I tried to be a fundamentalist, I tried to be an encourager, and somebody who didn’t get too high and too low, just stay the course, be fundamentally sound and be the best you could be week in and week out.
Q: How did you motivate?
A: I tried to pick motivated players first of all so that my main job wouldn’t be motivating. But I tried to encourage people, help them understand what the situation was, and prepare them. I always thought if we’re prepared, and we knew what we were doing and we understood the stakes, that we’d be motivated enough. There wasn’t a lot of rah-rah speeches or anything like that, it wasn’t a lot of threats or anything, it was “Here’s what we’re after, here’s what we can do if we do our jobs, and now let’s go out and be the best we can be.”
Q: What is your definition of leadership?
A: I stole this one from high school coach too, his name was Dave Driscoll, and he said that a good leader gets people to go where he wants them to go, but he makes them think it’s their idea. That to me is what leadership is all about, getting people to be their best because they want to, not because you’re making them or you’re dragging them somewhere, but you’re helping them get where they want to go.
Q: What are the traits of the ideal Tony Dungy football player?
A: I liked speed and quickness over any other athletic traits, so I’m looking for fast guys, quick and explosive. I’m looking for highly motivated guys who are great teammates, great community person, and I’m looking for super-smart people that understand how to play the game and can process information.
Q: Which was sweeter, winning a Super Bowl as a player or as a head coach?
A: As a coach, I realized this is not just your team and the 53 players and the staff, this is the whole organization, this is the city, the state of Indiana — it just felt much more meaningful. As a player, I understood my little small part of it. It was much more gratifying for me as a head coach.
Q: Whatever comes to mind: Jim Irsay?
A: I love him. He’s quirky, but that’s who he is. He is a sincere, sincere person. You can say, “Well I wouldn’t do this,” but I promise you it’s from the heart and it’s with the best interest of the Colts and the city in mind. He’s a fantastic man to work for.
Q: Bill Polian?
A: Smart, tough and a great listener.
Q: Donnie Shell?
A: Means the world to me. Taught me how to be a man. I was his roommate for two years. He taught me about being a father, being a husband, being a good person, being a Christian athlete. He taught me way, way more than just football. Probably the physically toughest player I’ve ever been around.
Q: Daniel Jones?
A: I like Daniel Jones. I love his attitude, I love his leadership, and I think he’s gonna take ’em to the playoffs.
Q: Saquon Barkley?
A: Heart. You saw the heart before he got hurt, but to me, so much like Edgerrin James. You come back from that knee injury, and you demonstrate the same desire and heart to be the best you can be. Your teammates feed off of that. I can tell they feed off him.
Q: Brian Daboll?
A: I thought he did a great job in Buffalo, and I just think the mentality he’s brought [to the Giants] has been fantastic. They’re probably the kings of gritty wins so far.
Q: Odell Beckham Jr. and the Cowboys?
A: I think Odell would be a typical Cowboy. Jerry Jones is a lot like Al Davis — he loves the flair, he loves the dramatic, he loves the big name, and I think Odell would be perfect for Jerry and the Cowboys.
Q: Where do the ’78 Steelers rank in history?
A: I think they gotta be pretty close to the top. I would put them up against anybody.
Q: Who are coaches or managers in other sports you admire?
A: I enjoy watching people who kind of orchestrate things well and get the most out of their players. I’ve really enjoyed watching Dusty Baker over the years. I enjoy watching Gregg Popovich. I have really marveled at what Steve Kerr has done with the Warriors over the last seven, eight years — kind of developing a style of play that’s different and getting the most out of literally a diverse cast of characters.
Q: Who was your favorite quarterback growing up?
A: I had three different kind of heroes growing up. Basketball was my first love, so I grew up watching Walt Frazier, and I thought he was just cool with flair at the same time. Baseball was Roberto Clemente, because he could do everything, and did it with a flair as well. Football was actually my last sport that I kind of came to, and Lem Barney was kind of the hometown hero in the Detroit area, and again, he had a great flair for the dramatic and great player. Later on, when I became a quarterback, I watched college quarterbacks ’cause there weren’t too many African-American professional quarterbacks. I loved Jimmy Jones, he was the quarterback at USC. I wore No. 8 in high school because of him. I loved watching Chuck Ealey play at University of Toledo. But my NFL quarterback was Len Dawson. I just loved Kansas City’s offense and how they attacked, and we kind of patterned ourselves in high school after the Chiefs.
Q: Why did you almost quit your high school team?
A: It was 1971, after my junior year in high school. Our high school was predominantly white, fairly new. Black students were getting bused at the time. And we had never had two African-American captains. My buddy, my best friend was a guy named Bob Burton, he was a receiver, I was the quarterback, we started as sophomores. When the vote turned out, it ended up that I was the captain and he wasn’t, and I was just very disappointed, and I just didn’t think it was right. And so as only a 16-year-old would, I thought the best thing to do would be to quit (laugh). My dad couldn’t talk any common sense into me and a lot of other people couldn’t. And finally my middle school assistant principal called me and I went over to his house and we talked about things for a while, and he got me to realize that quitting or running away from a problem wasn’t the best way to handle it. So he convinced me to go back out and get back on the team, and fortunately I did, and had a great senior year and got a chance to get a scholarship to the University of Minnesota, and a lot of good things happened to me that wouldn’t have happened had I let my emotions get the best of me.
Q: Three dinner guests?
A: The Apostle Paul, Martin Luther King [Jr.], Bill Russell — what it’s like to win, and to do some things in an era that wasn’t all that conducive to be an African-American, winning at the highest level, being the first coach to win a championship, coach of color.
Q: Favorite movie?
A: “Coach Carter.”
Q: Favorite actor?
A: Denzel Washington.
Q: Favorite actress?
A: Cicely Tyson.
Q: Favorite singers/entertainers?
A: Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder.
Q: Favorite meal?
A: Fried grouper.
Q: How were you able to overcome the suicide of your 18-year-old son James in 2006?
A: I think that’s my Christian faith, and just realizing that no matter what happens in life, you have to be thankful for what you have, and grateful for what you have, and then trust God go get you through those tough periods. And I think our whole family, you lose a child, that’s something that you don’t expect. I think having the right priorities and understanding that life and family is way, way more important than your job and your sport, that helps you go forward. And knowing that you are gonna be able to handle difficult things if you have faith.
Q: What do you hope your legacy is?
A: I would hope that people would think that I was a person who helped my city be a better place to live when I was there, who helped my players be the best they could be, and who has developed young men to be the best they could be. If people think that, I would be pleased.
Q: Many people think of you as more than a coach.
A: I look at my parents. My mom and dad were schoolteachers, they’re both kind of legendary in my hometown [Jackson, Mich.]. My mother was a high school teacher, she taught a couple of elective courses, and probably 90 percent of the people on our hometown elected to take public speaking or Shakespeare because they wanted to be in Mrs. Dungy’s class. And my dad was a college professor, taught junior college science, and again, he just helped a lot of people, and I think that’s where I learned it from, that no matter what you do, if you do your job well, and you’re there to help people, that’s what people are going to remember. And it’s not what you do so much, it’s how you do it and who you do it for.
